comicgetfuzzy: hopefully just the one post today... ;)

♥ maya. (

x_wifey) wrote in

comicgetfuzzy,
@ 2005-03-09 00:37:00

hopefully just the one post today... ;)

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	mbarrick 2005-03-09 08:41 (link)
	Yeah, you got me. Your logic, experience, talent, and understanding of copyright law simply cannot be argued with. Surely, icon making is a serious artform. How could I be so wrong? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

killerspork33
2005-03-09 08:44 (link)

I never once claimed copy right law. I said that generally people give credit to icon makers because it's the right thing to do. Seeing how the icon maker is the one who put the time and effort into making it.

And you spend twenty minutes working on one icon, blending 10 different layers and iamges to get the desired effect and tell me then it's not an artform. It may not be the highest form of art, nowhere near close to that. But it is art, in a way.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

darkcryst
2005-03-09 09:31 (link)

No.. its not art. Its a derivative work sure. Its a poor example of graphic design.. posible.

As for the time taken: well, for example your current icon? About 30 seconds work - if that.

If it took you longer than that thats because of your skills with the software, not because it SHOULD take longer.

Plus if you want credit on a derivative work, well sure, ask for it. But you have no right to expect it. Sorry, thats just naive.

The utter wank associated with icon making on LJ is funny as hell. Its always good to ask (because it might be their own photo or animation for example) but when its a screengrab, and some minor modifications (its rare that its more than minor too) then frankly.. who cares? I'll tell you who - only the person who thinks that their icon is some form of "art", and they are wrong.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ruggerjill 2005-03-09 14:41 (link)
	There's a getfuzzy/cartoon community that puts icons up for grabs. I'm assuming that the doublemint twins grabbed their icon from there.. as did I. Most say they don't want credit. I can't remember if I credited or not. I probably didn't because I don't think people should take credit for Darby's work, so I just take the ones who agree with my philosophy. (Reply to this) (Parent)

killerspork33
2005-03-09 17:26 (link)

Actually my current icons took me at least five minutes each to make (my mean Girls One took me at least 10).

You take a screen cap, resize it. Add in a several level of textures (erassing the texture away from the focus on the icon), add in a gradient level to get the desired coloring effect on the background and then add in several layers of text resizing over and over to get them to fit right and tell me that takes '30 seconds'

It has nothing to do with the skill of the program, you could have been making icons for years but to get that many effects it takes time to blend it all together. Any icon maker will tell you that.

And I love how you say that only icon makers think it's art. Even though their are a number of LJ comm that are application only and you have to prove you put time and effort into getting in. Every person on their demands credit. One has 350 members who can post icon, the number of people who have the community friended is almost 700. Because those people apprciate good icons.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	local81 2005-03-09 18:17 (link)
	not to be rude. but your a tool. they are icons. get a life. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

killerspork33
2005-03-09 19:47 (link)

and that's normal coming from a person who copy/pastes their icon. Whatever, you don't really care. That's fine, nothing wrong with copy/paste.

Except that when people do put time and effort in and ask to be credited it's the accepted concept that you credit them. There are lots of icon makers out there who don't care and don't require credit. Use their icons if you don't want to credit. It's not a hard concept.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	local81 2005-03-09 19:48 (link)
	tool (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

killerspork33
2005-03-09 19:50 (link)

why you are even posting here is beyond me, seeing how my intial comment about crediting wasn't even directed at you.

And check this persons icons, they have credited in the past. So obviously they have no problem whatsoever getting credit were credit is due.

Therefore they don't need you sticking up for them because they have accepted the concept.

I may be the 'tool' but you the one is sticking their noise in a situation that doesn't concern them at all and has no idea what they are talking about.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	local81 2005-03-09 19:50 (link)
	double tool (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	killerspork33 2005-03-09 19:58 (link)
	tear you two word replies really hurt. can you brain think of anything other then word 'tool'? Because someone that just goes around yelling 'tool' without backing it up, kinda a tool themselves. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	local81 2005-03-09 20:00 (link)
	sorry i have adult adhd. i could be entertained by this all day. tool. ps, i was gonna take your icons and use them just to piss you off... but they're all gay and lame and all... toolish. tool. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

killerspork33
2005-03-09 20:05 (link)

well, taking my icons without credit would have been such an origianl way to piss me. Because no one has ever thought of that idea before and you would definitely be the first person to ever do it to me.

And I would then be forced to take my normal reaction. Leave a comment in your journal asking for credit and then...well...nothing. Usually I lose interest after that.

And I weap that you don't like my icons. I know they're good, I know people like them. Granted they are pop culture and not the highest form of entertainment, I like the OC and Mean Girls.

So you telling me you're not a fan, doesn't break my heart. I'm still a member of numerous elite icon comm. Tool or not, I like making icons and I'm good at it.

Someone like you not agreeing doesn't break my heart.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Good God and Hallejuiah!

local81
2005-03-09 20:15 (link)

Mercy mercy child.

Someone like you not agreeing doesn't break my heart.

... Thats the first semi-intelligent thing you've said.

Relax a little. Breathe deep. While we can all see that making icons is important to you, its not to most of us.

Don't u realize that its a moot issue about crediting or not crediting... i mean there is no way to enforce it, so it just seems silly, uptight and anal to get all worked up about it.

Chillll sweetie. Go smoke some sweet leaf. Go buy a new vibrator and get yerself off. Whatever it takes to relax.

Thats all. Just enjoy life and don't sweat the small stuff.

See now you've tricked me into doing exactly what I've chastised you for... wasted 5 minutes of my life writing a stoopid post about icons.

Remember, this post is MY art.
.... Want.Comment.Take.Credit.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Good God and Hallejuiah! -

local81, 2005-03-09 20:16:57

Re: Good God and Hallejuiah! -

whatparanoia, 2005-03-10 18:18:43

Re: Good God and Hallejuiah! -

killerspork33, 2005-03-09 20:20:42

Re: Good God and Hallejuiah! -

local81, 2005-03-09 20:21:42

Re: Good God and Hallejuiah! -

thedaneoflawder, 2005-03-09 20:29:15

Re: Good God and Hallejuiah! -

local81, 2005-03-09 20:33:28

Re: Good God and Hallejuiah! -

stupiddumbpanda, 2005-03-09 20:39:07

Re: Good God and Hallejuiah! -

thedaneoflawder, 2005-03-09 20:44:35

Re: Good God and Hallejuiah! -

stupiddumbpanda, 2005-03-09 20:48:03

Re: Good God and Hallejuiah! -

thedaneoflawder, 2005-03-09 20:49:33

Re: Good God and Hallejuiah! -

stupiddumbpanda, 2005-03-09 20:51:32

Re: Good God and Hallejuiah! -

local81, 2005-03-09 20:52:28

Re: Good God and Hallejuiah! -

local81, 2005-03-09 20:53:19

What community am I in again? -

ruggerjill, 2005-03-09 21:16:38

Re: What community am I in again? -

local81, 2005-03-09 21:22:46

Re: What community am I in again? -

ruggerjill, 2005-03-09 21:23:49

Re: What community am I in again? -

nemesisbecoming, 2005-03-10 05:59:03

*MOD COMMENT* -

x_wifey, 2005-03-10 03:50:27

Re: *MOD COMMENT* -

st_fred, 2005-03-10 04:24:57

Re: *MOD COMMENT* -

spookydude, 2005-03-10 12:14:07

Re: *MOD COMMENT* -

joecdn, 2005-03-10 06:33:16

Re: *MOD COMMENT* -

local81, 2005-03-10 06:36:10

Re: *MOD COMMENT* -

x_wifey, 2005-03-10 06:46:12

Re: *MOD COMMENT* -

covered_in_clay, 2005-03-10 18:44:57

Re: *MOD COMMENT* -

gladstone, 2005-03-10 22:07:11

Re: *MOD COMMENT* -

princezz522, 2005-03-11 00:36:16

Re: What community am I in again? -

sunset_scorpio, 2005-03-10 07:44:33

Re: What community am I in again? -

johnny101, 2005-03-10 15:43:20

	nastyboots 2005-03-09 19:53 (link)
	no one is sticking up for anyone, we just think the people that say things like "serious icon makers" are loooooooooooooosers. hope the serious icon making gets you a gallery showing some day, you serious artist you. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

killerspork33
2005-03-09 19:57 (link)

I never said we were serious artists, I said that icon making can be seen as a much lower form of art.

And honestly, some of the stuff that get art gallery showing isn't the Mona Lisa either.

I'm pointing out that some people put time and effort into making their icon. I never said that everyone else had to. I like it, it's fun. I don't consider myself an artist but when I spend five minutes making one icon and ask for credit (as is standard in icon comm) I like to get it.

It's a simple concept really, you don't want to give someone credit don't take their icon. Make one yourself, find an icon maker that doesn't ask for credit, don't use an icon. It's a generally accepted concept on LJ.

If you don't want to agree with that, it's fine. You don't want to see it as any form of art, that's fine. It's still a hobby that takes time. Some people agree, some people don't.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	foxx 2005-03-10 06:42 (link)
	I don't think "art" gets lower than icon-making. It's 2 minutes spent using pre-made filters and text in a program any idiot can learn in extensively 2 hours or less. That's like the fellow who put his fecal matter in containers and sold them. Heck, self-righteous icon makers who demand credit and take themselves seriously are far worse. (Reply to this) (Parent)

darkcryst
2005-03-09 20:02 (link)

Of cource it has something to do with the skill you have in the program - more skilled = faster to generate. Obviously there is an upper limit, but it has a severe effect.

Everyone person in those communities can demand credit - and depending on the ammount of work taken to produce the icon I can understand that. However 5mins work does not consitute a lot of work. Make it an hour.. hell even half an hour, then its more like work.

I don't deny people apricate good icons. They also appricate getting stuff for free and not having to do any work. I'm not denying that icon making requres some effort either. Just that there is a stupid idea that cropping 3 frames of a comic strip and putting a few lines of text on it in an animation package is some form of serious work. Its not.

I object to the wanky snarky attitude that many people have over icons. Not to all icon makers. Here is a perfect example - one person saying "no I object to people using icons I made" when asked if someone can gank it. Nevermind they didn't take the original photo and all they've done is crop it and add a border. I can litterally do that in 10 seconds. Most of that time is spent waiting for photoshop to process what I've told it to do.

My personal perspective is this: If the icon maker has obviously put in some work to make the icon original AND credits the original source the icon came from - THEN I will credit it (if I take it, and so far I've never taken an icon from anyone). I've made many icons, many people have taken them - I care not because at the end of the day if 5-10mins work (tops) on a still image that wasn't even mine to begin with brings some people some happyness for a few minutes.. fine, thats enough for me.

Asking for anything more is a bit sad, but what really pisses me off are the rediculous demands associated with crediting - especially often under some mis-understanding of copyright.

Plus, and I don't mean to be rude here, but I am surprised at the 5mins you say it took you. I really am. But then again I use photoshop for a living, so I know exactly how fast some people could make those.

Again - don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that people that make icons should stop, I just think there is an unhealthy, and rather stupid attitude related to them a lot of the time.. and chose this post to vent.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

killerspork33
2005-03-09 20:14 (link)

I agree that people who crop pics and then add a pixel border don't really have any basis to ask for credit. Basically, they've made a base. Nothing more.

And yes, I ask for credit for my icons so that if someone else likes it they can find their way back to my journal. If I see someone using my icon without crediting me I politely ask them to. And that's basically it.

I don't check people's journals when they've told me they've snagged an icon to make sure they're crediting. I don't spam them. I ask once and then usually forget about it.

The reason I posted here was that I knew they hadn't made and weren't giving credit. I wouldn't have posted anything beyond that. I'm not even aruging with the person who posted the icon.

My replies were to people who were stating that it was stupid to ask for credit and that icon makers see themselves as aritsts.

Trust me, I'm definitely not an artist. I just get pissed off when people seem to think that making an icon takes 30 seconds and that's it. Because three minutes per icon x a 30 icon batch. That's at least an hour and a half worth of work (not to mention lost time in scrapped icons).

And photoshop is supposed to be much easier to use then psp7, which is what I use. I would love photoshop but I'm not willing to spend that much money on a program that I would use just for making icons. And psp7 sucks for text, 90% of the time on that icon was spent trying to make the text fit and look reable.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

darkcryst
2005-03-09 20:33 (link)

I don't know about easier. It certainly is more powerful - which means you have to jump around in hoops in PSP to get it do do what you can do in PS.

Plus I don't think anyone is saying that making 30 icons (of any quality) takes time. Individual ones however... well unless you aren't really sure what you are doing in the first place, 3 mins should be the max. This of cource only applies to static ones (or ones where the animation is nothing more than a couple of frames).

Even taking animation into account tho - the icon I'm posting with now is a 2minute long animation (the intro to the game Another World from '91). Getting that into a 40kb animation required about 10mins work. Most of that was working out how to capture the video from DOSBox... the rest was pretty quick.

I agree that the work work people put into the icon the more likely they will want credit - but to act like they have done some great work of art (which most do) is rather.. well.. it creates arguments like you've had with other people in this post. It just pisses people off. 3mins an icon is still not very long, especially when its just a bunch of text and some fade/gradient effects on a screen cap.

I've had quite a few people grab the icons I've made - and the only ones I've got annoyed about it when it is my photo (my default icon is of my own eye - but people have still ganked it).

I don't think anyone objects to people being credited for making an icon (even if they aren't credited), but its the way in which many people go about it that creates hostility.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	st_fred 2005-03-10 04:21 (link)
	hehehe pokes the old cool games nerd poke poke poke I loved this friggin game... cinematics out the arse :) that other game is more fun though... the non-sequel... man what was it called? with the rolling, and the aliens Fade to black was ITS Sequel... grr this is gonna bug me for minutes flashback thats it :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	nastyboots 2005-03-09 17:37 (link)
	APPLAUSE (Reply to this) (Parent)

m_jade8
2005-03-10 06:44 (link)

Alot of time and devotion is put in by serious icon makers learning different techniques and the art programs.

I've never understood the deal with "serious icon makers" who pour their very existence into icon making. I make icons too, but I don't think of it as an artform or anything. It's a way for me to waste time on the internet, like doing one of those internet quizzes. Besides, it's just a square. A virtual square. I really think the whole "credit me because I made it" mentality has to go. Icon makers shouldn't demand for credit unless it's of one's own photo or drawing.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	pinknblack21 2005-03-10 06:03 (link)
	The internet is serious business dun'cha know? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jennae 2005-03-11 01:31 (link)
	I always thought it was Serious Business. hahahaha I can't believe icon warz still happen, although I have at least one person on my FL who complains regularly about "stolen icons". oh noes! (Reply to this) (Parent)

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